Pitching rate for sour yeast

[Bad Goat Brewing]

I'm going to brew 12 gallons Sour beer tomorrow with a OG 1.056. The only two packs of yeast i could get from the LHS were one pack Roeselare blend(MFG Nov13, and one pack Belgian Lambic Blend MFG July13

Should i make a starter? I know this will throw the critter level off, but it's that or way under pitch.

[Bobbie Dooley]

Caveat: I have never done this and *might* have no fucking idea what I'm talking about.

My understanding is that the bugs will do their thing even if you underpitch. IIRC, JZ did a dregs pitch years ago and was shocked when his shitty pitch came out pretty damned close to the original beer. Brett takes like 7-10 days to prop and I'm pretty sure you don't want it on a stir plate, so if you want to do a starter you won't be brewing this weekend.

/Could be wrong

[Bad Goat Brewing]

Caveat: I have never done this and *might* have no fucking idea what I'm talking about.

My understanding is that the bugs will do their thing even if you underpitch. IIRC, JZ did a dregs pitch years ago and was shocked when his shitty pitch came out pretty damned close to the original beer. Brett takes like 7-10 days to prop and I'm pretty sure you don't want it on a stir plate, so if you want to do a starter you won't be brewing this weekend.

/Could be wrong

Thanks for the advice, here is what i ended up doing.

The two packs i bought today are stirring away.. I also ordered two more packs over-night from a brew shop in Portland. I'll pitch in separate carboys. I guess I'll find out if it makes a difference in a year or so.

[Bobbie Dooley]

Part of the reason I *think* that you're supposed to prop sour mixes without a stir plate is because you can throw that shit out of whack. The Pope says that the bugs will eventually come into equilibrium so you prop it up in a manner like it will ferment (i.e. still vessel with an airlock) and give it a good couple weeks to let everything grow to an adequate level. I think you'll start getting big ass acetic notes from your stir plate by tomorrow, I don't know if that'll carry over to the carboy though.

I think the slow breakdown of the dextrins also help the bugs grow up over time even if you underpitch. Also, sour flavor development occurs 99+% after primary fermentation is over.

Again, not an expert. Or experienced. At all.

[Bad Goat Brewing]

Part of the reason I *think* that you're supposed to prop sour mixes without a stir plate is because you can throw that shit out of whack. The Pope says that the bugs will eventually come into equilibrium so you prop it up in a manner like it will ferment (i.e. still vessel with an airlock) and give it a good couple weeks to let everything grow to an adequate level. I think you'll start getting big ass acetic notes from your stir plate by tomorrow, I don't know if that'll carry over to the carboy though.

I think the slow breakdown of the dextrins also help the bugs grow up over time even if you underpitch. Also, sour flavor development occurs 99+% after primary fermentation is over.

Again, not an expert. Or experienced. At all.

Hmmmm...It sounds like you know a lot more than I do, I've taken it off the stir plate. I don't know when I'll get a chance to brew again, so i can't let it sit for a couple weeks. My wife went back to school to get her masters, and we have 7 month old. My spare time is pretty unpredictable right now, I brew when i can sneak it in.

[Bobbie Dooley]

I say pitch that mother funger tomorrow, it's probably not even an underpitch for brett and bugs.

I think the Crooked Stave guy talked about it, Brett goes through like 3 growth phases so it will replicate just fine if you pitch less than an ale yeast.

[Scutrbrau]

Caveat: I have never done this and *might* have no fucking idea what I'm talking about.

My understanding is that the bugs will do their thing even if you underpitch. IIRC, JZ did a dregs pitch years ago and was shocked when his shitty pitch came out pretty damned close to the original beer. Brett takes like 7-10 days to prop and I'm pretty sure you don't want it on a stir plate, so if you want to do a starter you won't be brewing this weekend.

/Could be wrong

What he said.

The blend is a balance of strains and you throw it out of whack by doing a starter.

[brewinhard]

One of the main reasons not to do a starter with a sour blend on a stir plate is because the lactobacillus and pediococcus prefer anaerobic conditions to grow and ferment. Oxygen will decrease their growth rate and a starter (if one is to be done) should incorporate an airlock to minimize oxygen ingress. The bacteria will survive and grow but it will just take longer and the final product may not be as acidic as desired.