Batch Sparge Dark Grain Question

[captain carrot]

Total noob to the forum but a long time BN archive lurker.I am a great fan of JZ's brewing Classic Styles.He always has steeping grains in his recipe but doesn't say clearly that he steeps the for his AG recipes as well as the extract recipes.I is a simple enough procedure for me and would like to do it as the Pope would!

In a typical all grain recipe you would include steeping grains in the rest of the mash.
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[lylo]

Thanks Captain Carrot,I only asked because I know that there are a lot of guys adding spec grains at mash out and I thought maybe I was missing a page or something.

[spiderwrangler]

Usually if they are adding grains at mash out or sparge, it is just the highly kilned grains, with the idea being that the color and flavor will extract quickly, and prolonged heat/contact will result in a harsher or unpleasant character coming from these grains. All specialty malts can be mashed, and some can only be mashed (won't get much from steeping).

[lylo]

Thanks guys,i'm just trying to do things a JZ would want.

[maxam]

I thought about using some sort of dehusked raost grain, but I have the roast barley on hand. I also have this dream of making a proper stout of just roast barley and base malt. I'm close.

I've been cold steeping my dark grains the day before brew day. Gordon Strong recomends steeping @ 2qts water per pound of malt. His steeping methods are on page 45 of Brewing Better Beer. I added the steeping extract at the end of the boil to minimize astringency. Ideally to add color only you would use Briess's Midnight Wheat or Prinze malts. Dehusked carafe would be good too. You should be fine using the roasted you already have.
Good luck!

I got to brew with Gordon on Saturday through my club. He never mashes anything that doesn't need to be mashed (doesn't need to be converted). He just threw the dark grains on top of the mash after it was done, vorluafed and ran off/sparged.

[captain carrot]

I thought about using some sort of dehusked raost grain, but I have the roast barley on hand. I also have this dream of making a proper stout of just roast barley and base malt. I'm close.

I've been cold steeping my dark grains the day before brew day. Gordon Strong recomends steeping @ 2qts water per pound of malt. His steeping methods are on page 45 of Brewing Better Beer. I added the steeping extract at the end of the boil to minimize astringency. Ideally to add color only you would use Briess's Midnight Wheat or Prinze malts. Dehusked carafe would be good too. You should be fine using the roasted you already have.
Good luck!

I got to brew with Gordon on Saturday through my club. He never mashes anything that doesn't need to be mashed (doesn't need to be converted). He just threw the dark grains on top of the mash after it was done, vorluafed and ran off/sparged.

I used his cold steep procedure to brew a Black IPA to get the color out of the darkest grains without the roast flavor/astringency. I did it again in an American Stout with good results. Another advantage was adding the cold steep liquor at the end of the boil sped up the chilling process. I can't see throwing all my specialty grains in at the end of the mash for a lot of recipes. It just doesn't seem necessary.
What style was he brewing? How much specialty grain was there?

[maxam]

I got to brew with Gordon on Saturday through my club. He never mashes anything that doesn't need to be mashed (doesn't need to be converted). He just threw the dark grains on top of the mash after it was done, vorluafed and ran off/sparged.

I used his cold steep procedure to brew a Black IPA to get the color out of the darkest grains without the roast flavor/astringency. I did it again in an American Stout with good results. Another advantage was adding the cold steep liquor at the end of the boil sped up the chilling process. I can't see throwing all my specialty grains in at the end of the mash for a lot of recipes. It just doesn't seem necessary.
What style was he brewing? How much specialty grain was there?

He brewed a brown porter, here is his recipe:
Brewer: Gordon Strong
Batch Size: 6.50 gal Style: Brown Porter (12A)
Boil Size: 9.80 gal Style Guide: BJCP 2008
Color: 29.3 SRM Equipment: Stainless Kegs (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
Bitterness: 17.6 IBUs Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.054 (13.2° P) Mash Profile: English 153
Est FG: 1.016 SG (4.0° P) Fermentation: English Ale
ABV: 5.0% Taste Rating: 30.0

Ingredients Amount Name Type #
15.00 gal Distilled Water Water 1
1.00 tsp Calcium Chloride (Mash 60 min) Misc 2
0.75 tsp Phosphoric Acid (Mash 0 min) Misc 3
9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 4
1 lbs 12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5
1 lbs 8.0 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 6
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 7
12.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 8
1.5 oz Fuggles [4.0%] - Boil 60 min Hops 9
0.8 oz Fuggles [4.0%] - Boil 10 min Hops 10
1 pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) Yeast 11

Notes
Recipe from Gordon Strong featured in BeerSmith Podcast 39 Mash Maris Otter and Munich malts Add Brown, Crystal and Chocolate malts during mash out (recirculation) NOT DURING MASH Use UK crystal not US I used Thos Fawcett Maris Otter Treat all water with phosphoric to hit about pH 5.2 Add 1 tsp CaCl2 to mash Add 1/2 tsp CaCl2 to boil Batch sparge 20 min whirlpool (turn off heat, stir, let settle)

[gotsumbeers]

So I went with my original recipe (16lb Golden Promise, 2lb Roast Barley, 2lb flaked barley) and ground .75lb of additional roast barley that I added to the mash with the second sparge of a batch sparge. Nice and black, not just dark brown. Still has a bit to go to finish up, so I'm not certain how it will compare taste-wise, but the hydrometer sample tasted great.

Thanks for the info all.