Counterpressure Filling Belgian Bottles?

[ApresSkiBrewer]

What kind of CPBF do you have? Mine is adjustable.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/counter-pressure-filler.html

Loosen the lower nut on the fill side. (If I remember correctly)

I filled my belgian 750's bottom up.

Definitely don't fill standard 12 oz. bottles over 2.9 vols. They are commercially rated at 3vols.

If you always store cold, you're probably fine at 3.5 or so, but, I really wouldn't want to ship them or anything.

[JohnF]

Anybody have a source for this 3 volume rating on bottles?

[ApresSkiBrewer]

3 vol's.... That's what I was taught at Siebel.... don't remember which prof. - and my Siebel notebooks are on the east coast, but thats the common value kicked around the industry.

[Nyakavt]

3 vol's.... That's what I was taught at Siebel.... don't remember which prof. - and my Siebel notebooks are on the east coast, but thats the common value kicked around the industry.

JZ says the burst pressure is 4 vol. I think 3 has got some safety factor involved for how the beer will get shaken up when being shipped around and the elevated storage temperatures, so it's certainly good advice. I have gone as high as 3.8 volumes and stored at 75-80F with no problems, but it only takes one blowing up in your face to ruin your day. If the bottle is going to get shaken up or dropped while warm, expect it to explode. Also you probably want to stay away from the thinner bottles like Amstel light, in case somebody gives you some of them.

[JohnF]

"Expect to explode" is overstating it a bit.

I've bought, like I say, several infected beers in standard bottles that were easily 4.5 volumes (distinctly more carbonated than Orval anyway). These were bought off of a shelf at room temperature. Unless I have some amazing luck in buying beers like this there must be thousands of them on store shelves right now the sheer lack of anecdotes involving bottles breaking on store shelves is overwhelming evidence that 4-4.5 volumes in a standard bottle at room temperature is extremely unlikely to burst.

I would believe that these bottles are designed to hold 3 volumes during a pasteurization cycle but simple observation suggests that 3 volumes at room temperature is an absurdly large safety margin.

ETA: That's why when someone says they are designed for 3 volumes I ask, at what temperature? The bottle doesn't care how much c02 by mass is in it, it cares what the difference in pressure between the inside and outside is. That is temperature dependent.

[Nyakavt]

"Expect to explode" is overstating it a bit.

Hey, I said if it's dropped or shaken up I have had a jackass coworker that I was delivering a six pack to drop them in the parking lot, about 4 out of the six exploded within 10 minutes even though none broke when they hit the ground. This was certainly contributed by cracks from hitting the ground, but they were only 2.5 volumes. If the bottle gets shaken up severely it is going to raise the pressure in the head space, just as raising the temperature would. Just saying be careful, I still do carbonate to almost 4 volumes about once a year and haven't had any bottle failures.

[JohnF]

"Expect to explode" is overstating it a bit.

Hey, I said if it's dropped or shaken up I have had a jackass coworker that I was delivering a six pack to drop them in the parking lot, about 4 out of the six exploded within 10 minutes even though none broke when they hit the ground. This was certainly contributed by cracks from hitting the ground, but they were only 2.5 volumes. If the bottle gets shaken up severely it is going to raise the pressure in the head space, just as raising the temperature would. Just saying be careful, I still do carbonate to almost 4 volumes about once a year and haven't had any bottle failures.

Yeah, shaking and hot = bad. Well at least where beer is concerned.

If you can keep your bottles reasonably still and reasonably cool it stands to reason that you can do at least 4 volumes in a bottle that was designed to do 3 and sit in the back of someones truck while they drive over speed bumps.

An interesting question would be, what are Belgian bottles designed for? The glass on a Rochefort or Duvel bottle is somewhat thicker than a domestic bottle but not dramatically so. The geometry is a bit different but that could be aesthetic or functional, I am not an engineer. German bottles are often substantially thicker than either, but the point there is re-usability and not pressure tolerance I think since breweries which make no wheat beer still use them.