To shake or not to shake?

[bsegroves]

Hello,

I brewed up a Dortmunder on feb 10th. It's og ended up at 1.090 and I piched a 2l starter of WLP029 German Ale/ Kolsch yeast.
From a previous thread I learned that I under pitched a little, but theoretically It should still work fine.
It took off pretty quick in less than 12 hours and seemed to bubble strong for a couple of days.
I got a little worried after it slowed way down to almost nothing after 6 days so I swished up the bucket by spinning it back and forth a few times. That worked for another day or two but by day 10 there was no activity at all.
It is now day 11. It doesn't seem to be bubbling and I am wondering if I should do anything or just forget about it for a couple of more weeks.
I took a hydrometer reading yesterday and it was down to 1.030. The recipe says it should finish out around 1.010-1.014. I added an extra 3.3 lbs of LME and an extra 1/3 od DME at brewtime just as an experiment so I wonder if that could alter the final reading?
So what should I do? Forget it, or shake it up more?
I can't really raise the temp any more. It's around 64Ëš.

Thanks,
Brannon

[ApresSkiBrewer]

That is TON of extra malt that you added, and it will definitely affect where the final gravity will land. That particular yeast strain has an apparent attenuation of about 72-78%, according to the white labs site. Since you did underpitch a little for such a big beer, it will probably fall more towards the 70-72% edge of the scale. Right now, your apparent attenuation is right at 66%, and that could make sense, if you didn't oxygenate enough, and w/ a smaller pitch than needed.

Also... if you added that much extra malt, I hope you bumped up some of your hop additions (bittering in particular) to balance out this imperial dort you've put together!! It may taste super syrupy and cloying at 1.030 without an adjustment on the hop side as well....

What you could do, is pitch a very active starter of something like 001, find a way to get the temp up to 68-70, and see if that might drop it a few more points... or even champaign yeast... but I don't have personal experience with dealing w/ stuck ferments.

On a side note, it might not even be your yeast, or your oxygenation.... you might just be working with a malt extract that isn't very attenuable... and in that case, you are pretty much as low as you are going to get.

[bsegroves]

Thanks Apresski.
Adding more hops was in the back of my mind when I was putting this one together, but I didn't follow through with it. Is it possible to add more at this point, or is it just too late?

Also... if you added that much extra malt, I hope you bumped up some of your hop additions (bittering in particular) to balance out this imperial dort you've put together!! It may taste super syrupy and cloying at 1.030 without an adjustment on the hop side as well....

So you are saying that I could maybe make another starter now and add that?
I also have an Imperial blonde that I started on Feb 7th. It is still bubbling strong now after 14 days. Do you think that I could rack it off to a secondary in a few and pitch the yeast from that? I imaging its yeast could be pretty spent though because it started out at 1.100. I don't want to risk screwing it up though because I have high hopes for that one.

What you could do, is pitch a very active starter of something like 001, find a way to get the temp up to 68-70, and see if that might drop it a few more points... or even champaign yeast... but I don't have personal experience with dealing w/ stuck ferments.

Well I guess if that's the case at least I learned something.

Thanks for the help,

Brannon

On a side note, it might not even be your yeast, or your oxygenation.... you might just be working with a malt extract that isn't very attenuable... and in that case, you are pretty much as low as you are going to get.

[ApresSkiBrewer]

I think your best bet is to pitch a very active starter of 001, or maybe even champaign yeast, if you want to dry it out more.

Make sure its a pretty big starter, and that you pitch it when the starter is very active (showing CO2/krausen).

I would jostle/ shake it up a touch, giving the 001 a little oxygen when you pitch it.. and hope that it will help the beer finish out.

Definitely don't expect this beer to get down to 1.014... it just won't happen when you start with such a high OG (unless there is quite a bit of simple sugars/adjucts used). You might be able to get it down to 1.022-1.024... or around 75% apparent attenuation.

Most importantly though, take a taste, and if it tastes pretty good, bottle/keg it up, and see what happens. Worst case scenario is that you brew it again.

[bsegroves]

Right on.

Thanks

I think your best bet is to pitch a very active starter of 001, or maybe even champaign yeast, if you want to dry it out more.

Make sure its a pretty big starter, and that you pitch it when the starter is very active (showing CO2/krausen).

I would jostle/ shake it up a touch, giving the 001 a little oxygen when you pitch it.. and hope that it will help the beer finish out.

Definitely don't expect this beer to get down to 1.014... it just won't happen when you start with such a high OG (unless there is quite a bit of simple sugars/adjucts used). You might be able to get it down to 1.022-1.024... or around 75% apparent attenuation.

Most importantly though, take a taste, and if it tastes pretty good, bottle/keg it up, and see what happens. Worst case scenario is that you brew it again.

[bsegroves]

Well I just took another gravity reading and it's down to 1.024! I think it's going to be OK!
In stead of repitching, I think I'll just sit on it for another week or two, transfer to a bright tank to clear it a little and the bottle that bitch. He he.
It tasted better today than it did two days ago, but it's still a little unusual which I don't mind because I like to screw around with different flavors. I'm still learning to recognize what I'm tasting.
I also don't know what a Dortmunder is supposed to taste like either.
It's golden colored. I think it's going to be good.


cheers!

[ApresSkiBrewer]

Ah, forgot to mention that... sometimes you just need to wait. Little to no airlock activity doesn't mean that there isn't still some action going on. When in doubt, give it a little more time, if anything else. 1.024 is probably getting close to its terminal gravity... 78% attenuation would get you to 1.020... and that is where the yeast you pitched conks out, but you're in the ball park of 75%, so give it a bit more time, and you should be just fine.

[bsegroves]

Ok Thanks Man.
I think it's all good now. There's just too much time there to think about and wonder what's going on.
It was pretty slow looking though, but I guess that you can't completely 100% go by airlock activity.

peace,
Brannon

Ah, forgot to mention that... sometimes you just need to wait. Little to no airlock activity doesn't mean that there isn't still some action going on. When in doubt, give it a little more time, if anything else. 1.024 is probably getting close to its terminal gravity... 78% attenuation would get you to 1.020... and that is where the yeast you pitched conks out, but you're in the ball park of 75%, so give it a bit more time, and you should be just fine.