Controversial revelations from Chris White?

[Mylo]

On closer listen to the recent White Bros. show, I discovered two tidbits in direct contradiction to some things that Jamil and others have advocated in the past: 1) no need to wash yeast before repitching, and 2) the recommendation to pitch warm.

Apparently the risk of yeast washing isn't worth the benefit. I guess that all depends on how healty the yeast cake is to begin with (ie., little hop and break material is in there to begin with, minimal time after complete fermentation, etc.). I wonder if his recommendation changes if conditions weren't "ideal"? I suppose being able to dump the trub in a conical will help in this regard.

Also, he advocates pitching warm - because there is little risk of esters, and much more growth potential in the first 12-18 hours with a warm pitch - provided that you can slowly ramp the temp down within that timeframe.

Unfortunately, Jamil wasn't in studio for comment, but I would like to hear what he has to say about these recommendations. Also, will any of you change your practices accordingly?


Mylo

[rhino777]

I always warm pitch and am happy with my results. Wasn't it Palmer and Jamil who got at each others throats about the issue on one of the older shows?

[UnaHopper]

I always warm pitch and am happy with my results. Wasn't it Palmer and Jamil who got at each others throats about the issue on one of the older shows?

I think that was Johny P.

[bcmaui]

I always warm pitch and am happy with my results. Wasn't it Palmer and Jamil who got at each others throats about the issue on one of the older shows?

I think that was Johny P.

It was 50G, aka "Chicken Boy" (John Plise, one of the two original "brewcasters"). JZ has so many John's it is hard to to keep up. But he won't do a show without at least one of them around.

[ColdBraue]

That was the (Classic) American Pilsner show. Plise was talking about how every medal winner he has ever had has been from a warm pitch. The one that he pitched cold didn't win anything. Pretty funny!

[Thirsty Boy]

But Jamil and the whites obviously disagree about many things -

A white labs vial (or for that matter a smackpack) is supposed to contain enough cells for a 5G batch of up to 1.060 wort isn't it?? Jamil's calculator suggests a 2L starter & almost twice the number of cells as are in a vial for a 1.060 wort.

Warm pitches will result in faster growth in the initial stages... which compensate for the lower pitch rate. Pitch at the Mr Malty recommended rate and you don't need the same level of growth at the start, so you can pitch cold and avoid even the possibility of unwanted flavours produced during a warm growth phase.

IMHO the advice to pitch warm is an insurance thing... more chance of the average person doing the average thing..... getting an acceptable result. Pitch your one 6 month old vial cold - and suddenly any weakness in your technique or shortcuts you took, might come to the surface. Jamil's advice isn't about consistently getting an acceptable or even just a good, result - its about being completely anal about your process, knowing what effect everything you do has on the beer, doing everything at the absolute optimum and getting the best possible result.

To my mind, Chris is like an instructor at an advanced defensive driving course - he's an absolute expert, he knows his cars and his roadcraft like the back of his hand and his advice will get you home through a storm, over the icy patch, past the Pacheco carjackers and safely into the garage every single time.

Jamil is like Michael Schumaker trying to tell you how to drive the perfect hot lap.

As for washing - my guess would be that if you wash your yeast, then what you have in your jar is going to be mostly just yeast... and that allows you to more accurately estimate the actual amount you will be re-pitching. If your yeast is unwashed... how much is in there?? Is it half trub? only 25%? the difference could be a doubling or a halving of your intended pitching rate. And its obvious how Jamil feels about the appropriate pitching rate.

TB

[Mylo]

Jamil is like Michael Schumaker trying to tell you how to drive the perfect hot lap.

If I wasn't happily married, and I wanted to drive the perfect hot lap - I'd befriend the Schuman brothers and be a roadie for CHC. There's enough soaked panties after one of their shows that it's easy pickin's - and I'm not just talking cougars. Just sayin'.

I think I'll stick to beer advice from the Pope.


Mylo

[Pseudolus.]

If you really-and-truly have enough healthy yeast cells, I think cold pitching is the way to go. If you don't, warm pitching is probably a better bet. I think the difference between the CW and JZ positions might be whether they think the people listening to their advice are really likely to pitch enough yeast.

PS - German dude (so, right there, you'd think he knows his lagers) on latest "Basic Brewing" suggests splitting your lager wort into two containers. Pitch the yeast into one of the containers on brew day, put them both into your chest cooler, and then aerate and add the rest of the wort 24 hours later. Idea being that you give your lager yeast - which you're probably underpitching - time to grow a little bit in the smaller volume before showing it the rest of the wort. He had an authentic-sounding German name for this technique and everything. (I think it was puttenhaffaderwertinnanodderbukkit or something like that.) Sounded interesting. And it reminded me of something JZ has said he does with lagers - pitches (IIRC) NO yeast on brew day, chills it overnight, then racks the beer off of the trub that collects in the bottom of the fermenter before pitching yeast into really, really clean wort. Similar in that both techniques rely on sanitation being really good so that there's no significant amount of bacteria in there to take advantage of a 24-hour no-yeast-yet head start.

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio
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