Can We Help Chad With His WLP565 Problem

[SacoDeToro]

Chat said on the 11/16/08 show with Homer Smith that he had tried to finish out a Saison with WLP565 (Dupont)

Here is my 2 bits on the matter.
I agree, Chat that your mash temp was fine. BUT..........................

WLP565 takes a very very VERY long time to ferment.
Seriously, I had used it and had it sit at 1.022 for 2 weeks. I figured that it was done, done, done. I then put it in bottles. They became the most volatile bombs I have ever had.
It kept on fermenting, very very slowly. In Farmhouse Ales (brewers publications) the author indicates that there may be many strains in wlp565, including brettanomyces.

That would explain much. I would rack this beer to a second fermenter and leave it for a month or more in order to let it finish.

Now on another Saison note. Next year try the WLP566(platinum strain). It took my 1.048 Saison down to 1.005. (89% Attenuation). I really like this yeast & not just for its attenuation %.

Give it a try.

Bump

First let me premise things by saying 565 is probably one of the worst yeasts I've worked with - and I've used it many times. I'm fuckin' done with it.

Laboratory analysis has shown the yeast in Saison DuPont to be an amalgam of strains, one of which may be brett, but that has yet to be confirmed. That said, 565 is an isolated brett free strain from the DuPont house yeast. As others have noted, 565 is very temperamental and I have yet to meet a brewer who's been able to get the requisite attenuation from that yeast alone, regardless of mash procedure, brewing sugars, etc... I know a few pro brewers who've sent beers in for analysis post fermentation and the brett cell count always comes up zero, so there appears to be no brett in the 565 strain

The only way I've been able to get 565 to dry out is with the use of galactosidase enzyme in the fermenter. Bottling a beer that's been dosed with an enzyme post-boil is dicey. And IMO, saisons really do need to be bottled conditioned to develop proper carbonation. Have you ever tried bottling a kegged beer that's at 4 volumes of CO2, even with a counter pressure filler? Not fun.

I have had great luck in nearly every beer I've used WLP530 in. This includes saisons. Personally, I think 530 can make an outstanding dry saison.

Now 566 has made great beers for my friends that have used it. They're reported vigorous and predictable fermentations.

[TapItGood]

The first time I ued this yeast, I posted a question about it on tech talk, thinking I had a wild yeast infection. It started strong and fermented norrmally for about a week slowing to almost stop , When I awoke in the morning getting ready to rack to secondary, the dam thing was chugging away again as if it was fermenting at its peak again. It went throug 2 cycles of slowing and then picking up again..maddening. It did finish out to about 1.010 and dam the beer was good. This strain of yeast reminds me of an Ex of mine that was a tempremental spoiled biatch and difficult to live with, but dam the sex was good...

[SacoDeToro]

The first time I ued this yeast, I posted a question about it on tech talk, thinking I had a wild yeast infection. It started strong and fermented norrmally for about a week slowing to almost stop , When I awoke in the morning getting ready to rack to secondary, the dam thing was chugging away again as if it was fermenting at its peak again. It went throug 2 cycles of slowing and then picking up again..maddening. It did finish out to about 1.010 and dam the beer was good. This strain of yeast reminds me of an Ex of mine that was a tempremental spoiled biatch and difficult to live with, but dam the sex was good...

Many people, myself included, have observed the same periodic fermentation you report. Saison DuPont finishes around 1.004-1.005 and I've yet to see 565 get a saison that dry. I'm sure your saison was tasty, but 1.010 isn't particularly dry for the style.

[Chupa LaHomebrew]

Hey Hopbumping Brewer,

I don't want to contradict you, but if you check this yeast chart, you will see that 566 is isolated from Saison Dupont Vielle Provision.

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

If you want Blaugies yeast, it is packaged as Wyeast 3726 - Farmhouse. This is the one I said I didn't really like, too much isoamyl-acetate (banana). But everyone that has tried it off tap really likes it.

[hopbumpingbrewer]

Wow. Thank for the update Chupa. I could have sworn that when I checked the same page in the past it definitely noted Blaugies as WLP566.

I appreciate your correction.

Now I am going to get after that Wyeast strain to see how it goes as well as WLP568.

Thanks Saco for your comments as well.

Take care all, great thread.

Bump

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

This explains a lot about what's wrong with my saison. I used WLP565 and it is too sweet.

[hopbumpingbrewer]

Unless I am in some kind of self loathing mood for 2 months, I really do not want any part of 565 any more.

Too much headache. Too much time. Not quite worth the results.

Bump

[Gahr]

How long should I expect it to take for saisons to carbonate properly when using 565 or 568, if the temperature is, say 68 F where I store my bottles? In my experience it takes quite a while at this temperature. Would the process speed up significantly if the temperature was higher? I can manage about 80 F.