Boycott Oregon?

[bcmaui]

its only a matter of time until we invade oregon and turn it into south washington anyway

ah oregon..... washington's mexico.....

Washington - Oregon's Hat?

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

Everyone calm down. This is not a new law that was passed that is doing this. It is the wording of the original law that legalized home brewing that is causing the mix up. According to the law, beer can only be made for home consumption. For the last couple decades the enforcement body didn't look at the law. Apparently, a local brewery wanted to hold a homebrew comp. They checked out the law and noticed that it might cause some problems with their license and asked for an interpretation. The OLCC reluctantly said that giving beer to a judge was not home consumption, and so comps aren't legal. The OLCC has to enforce the law, but they don't want to mess with collecting taxes from a gajillion homebrewers. They are working with the AHA and local groups to get the law changed for next year. Gary Glass explained all this on the AHA forum.

[bcmaui]

The OLCC has to enforce the law, but they don't want to mess with collecting taxes from a gajillion homebrewers. They are working with the AHA and local groups to get the law changed for next year. Gary Glass explained all this on the AHA forum.

The law was written with the intent to collect beer taxes on everyone except for homebrewers drinking in a private residence without saying it as such. Beer judging falls outside this narrow interpretation of the law, and, if you read the law, homebrew being judged in competitions is illegal. For common sense purposes it was ignored all this time, but many states, including Oregon, are very tight on money and are looking at anyway possible to raise revenues - often regardless if those enforcement efforts actually may cost more than the revenue generated - which is more of the point I was making.

Oregon's law is also specifically restricted to consumption in the home - that does need to be amended to include beer competitions as you state - but just because it prevented a brewery from conducting a competition as it may violate it's liquor license, it is also doing the same I suspect at the State Fair and they would rather sell beer and make money doing that at the expense of eliminating the contests that could put the State Fair liquor license at risk. Foolish as it ignores that these contests have been partially responsible (together with low state beer taxes) for creating one of the more robust beer industries in the nation and created an industry that generates massive amounts of revenue to the state as it is.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/p ... tes/oregon

Just as California was considering banning coffee stouts:

http://www.examiner.com/x-241-Beer-Exam ... California

and Arizona is recently tried to raise beer taxes to 3 1/2 times as high Hawaii's $1.00 per gallon state beer tax:

http://www.examiner.com/x-241-Beer-Exam ... n-beer-tax

which continues to prove our legislators will do silly things left to their own devices and certain lobby groups. That is why the AHA's most important mission is as OUR lobby group to speak up for common sense in beer legislation.

My point is that in these economically challenging times many states are trying to squeeze as much revenue out of many areas and "sin" taxes are often the most popular approach. We have to stay on our toes and this is the biggest reason to be a member of the AHA in my view.

I would not go to the state fair - or at least not purchase any beer there to prove the liquor board the state is a greedy bastard and should change the law. Homebrewers are a very small part of the beer consuming community, and it may not make a difference, but by banding together with craftbrewers who can also educate their customers, we may be able to make a difference - especially in Oregon. That is the power of the AHA.

Here's a list of Charlie articles on many of these topics - he is a prolific writer:

http://www.examiner.com/x-241-Beer-Examiner

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

The OLCC has to enforce the law, but they don't want to mess with collecting taxes from a gajillion homebrewers. They are working with the AHA and local groups to get the law changed for next year. Gary Glass explained all this on the AHA forum.

The law was written with the intent to collect beer taxes on everyone except for homebrewers drinking in a private residence without saying it as such. Beer judging falls outside this narrow interpretation of the law, and as such, if you read the law, homebrew being judged in competitions it technically taxable. It was ignored all this time, but many states, including Oregon, are very tight on money and are looking at anyway possible to raise revenues - often regardless if those enforcement efforts actually may cost more than the revenue generated - which is more of the point I was making.

It is also specifically restricted to consumption in the home - that does need to be amended to include beer competitions as you state - but just because it prevented a brewery from conducting a competition as it may violate it's liquor license, it is also doing the same I suspect at the State Fair and they would rather sell beer and make money doing that at the expense of eliminating the contests that may have been partial responsible (together with low state beer taxes) for creating on the more robust beer industries in the nation and an industry that generates massive amounts of revenue to the state as it is.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/p ... tes/oregon

Just as California was considering banning coffee stouts:

http://www.examiner.com/x-241-Beer-Exam ... California

and Arizona is recently tried to raise beer taxes to 3 1/2 times as high Hawaii's $1.00 per gallon state beer tax:

http://www.examiner.com/x-241-Beer-Exam ... n-beer-tax

which continues to prove our legislators will do silly things left to their own devices and certain lobby groups. That is why the AHA's most important mission is as OUR lobby group to speak up for common sense in beer legislation.

My point is that in these economically challenging times many states are trying to squeeze as much revenue out of many areas and "sin" taxes are often the most popular approach. We have to stay on our toes and this is the biggest reason to be a member of the AHA in my view.

Here's a list of Charlie articles on many of these topics - he is a prolific writer:

http://www.examiner.com/x-241-Beer-Examiner

All that's true, but my point is that OLCC isn't the villain. Had the brewery not instigated this by asking for some clarification, things would have kept rocking on. Not even the AHA would have known it was illegal. Everyone thought it was legal. Now OLCC is assisting the AHA to help make sure its legal for next year.

[bcmaui]

All that's true, but my point is that OLCC isn't the villain. Had the brewery not instigated this by asking for some clarification, things would have kept rocking on. Not even the AHA would have known it was illegal. Everyone thought it was legal. Now OLCC is assisting the AHA to help make sure its legal for next year.

My point is that the Oregon home brewing law was written to minimize the loss of beer tax revenue to the state without putting it in those words. The OLCC is the villian in the sense that they have the power to pull the liquor license of a brewery or state or county fair if they deem non-commercial home made beer judging illegal. Rather than denying an activity that has been common place in Oregon for many, many years, they could allow allow the status quo to continue as they wait for clarification and/or amendment of the law as it is clear that non-commercial home made beer judging falls under the spirit if not the word of the law. If the OLCC had some stones this is the position they would take and throw it back on the legislature as this has been going on for some time now and is causing no harm.

As long as te home brew is legally made, there should be no conflict. Beer competitions have been occurring for a long time in Oregon with the OLCC's consent. Why change things now because a brewery asked for clarification? Because the OLCC has the power to pull your liquor license, and for no other reason.

[bcmaui]

Hawaii's law is a little more clear on this - you can make a certain quantity at home for family use and not for sale. If part of your family's use is to enter it into a county or state fair, or any other competition, as many other agricultural products do, no big deal. Or share it with friends. Or whatever, as long as you do not sell it. At least for now.

"Hawaii statute Title 16, Chapter 281, Part I, § 281-3 provides that the head of any family may produce for family use and not for sale an amount of wine not exceeding two hundred gallons a year, and an amount of beer not exceeding one hundred gallons a year."

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

All that's true, but my point is that OLCC isn't the villain. Had the brewery not instigated this by asking for some clarification, things would have kept rocking on. Not even the AHA would have known it was illegal. Everyone thought it was legal. Now OLCC is assisting the AHA to help make sure its legal for next year.

My point is that the Oregon home brewing law was written to minimize the loss of beer tax revenue to the state without putting it in those words. The OLCC is the villian in the sense that they have the power to pull the liquor license of a brewery or state or county fair if they deem non-commercial home made beer judging illegal. Rather than denying an activity that has been common place in Oregon for many, many years, they could allow allow the status quo to continue as they wait for clarification and/or amendment of the law as it is clear that non-commercial home made beer judging falls under the spirit if not the word of the law. If the OLCC had some stones this is the position they would take and throw it back on the legislature as this has been going on for some time now and is causing no harm.

As long as te home brew is legally made, there should be no conflict. Beer competitions have been occurring for a long time in Oregon with the OLCC's consent. Why change things now because a brewery asked for clarification? Because the OLCC has the power to pull your liquor license, and for no other reason.

While there's some merit to the argument that they should use precedent and continue interpret the law in one way, in practice it's not a good idea. Suppose a contest judge imbibes to much and dies in a car accident. If the contest is technically illegal, that makes the venue criminally as well as civilly liable for any damages the judge caused. If it's illegal, the insurance company won't pay the damages the State Fair has been paying premiums for. A good lawyer could close the fair forever. And if the state knowingly doesn't enforce the law, that makes the State of Oregon vulnerable to prosecution.

And if the state is going to start selectively enforcing the laws, which ones will they choose. Will they let Marvin, down the street, keep selling crack because he's been doing it so long? Will the decide to let Louise continue to embezzle from her employer because he hasn't noticed it? Will sex get you out of a traffic ticket?

It's more than just the technical illegality that's at issue.

[bcmaui]

While there's some merit to the argument that they should use precedent and continue interpret the law in one way, in practice it's not a good idea. Suppose a contest judge imbibes to much and dies in a car accident. If the contest is technically illegal, that makes the venue criminally as well as civilly liable for any damages the judge caused. If it's illegal, the insurance company won't pay the damages the State Fair has been paying premiums for. A good lawyer could close the fair forever. And if the state knowingly doesn't enforce the law, that makes the State of Oregon vulnerable to prosecution.

It's more than just the technical illegality that's at issue.

All good points. It is a shame there is less and less personal responsibility and common sense out there. My wife has won several categories in our county fair for prepared foods - jellies, pickles, etc. Is it completely on appearance and aroma as the county fair judges are no longer allowed to taste the product that they give awards to for fear of food poisoning and liability to the fair. Sad but true.

By extending your logic above, the beer judges should not be drinking the beer at all as some attorney can find some jury that could possibly grant an award against the entity that hosts the event regardless what happens. It is because of this that I no longer host beer club meeting at my house and have very little interest in becoming a beer judge.

I am happy to brew at home and share my labors with friends on a personal basis, not through any organized group.