I'm trolling, kinda. Help with a wee heavy with oak and peat

[pfooti]

I want to name this beer "Forum Troll Ale", because it seems that nothing can touch off a flame war quite like peat-smoked malt in a wee heavy. Let's assume that what I want is a smoky, oaky, heavy scotch ale and go from there. I'm not worried about brewing to style, except to the point where style makes sense. Here's what I did the first time:

Mash @ 154
20 lbs golden promise
4 oz roasted barley

Boil the first gallon of runnings down to 1 pint, add back to the wort

Collect enough runnings for a 2 hour boil, targeting 5.5 gal at about 1.090 or so (I have some efficiency problems at this size, hence the ton of grains).

60 and 30 minute additions, 1 oz each of EK Goldings

Ferment cold (sub-60) with Wyeast 1728.

This is pretty much a clone of Skotrat's Traquair House ale, and I'm pretty happy with it. My friend, who is a scotch ale connoisseur, prefers oaky smoky ales. So, what I want to do is take this base and bring in a few more flavors. I've been grilling him - he would like it to be noticeably smoky, as if you're sipping a good glass of Islay scotch (Lagavulin springs to mind). Mmmm.... Lagavulin.... wait, back on target.

Anyway, I'd like to add a combination of oak and peated malt to this recipe, and would love some advice. I'm thinking of going with oak cubes to get the oak flavor. I recently listened to the Firestone Walker CYBI podcast and have some rough ideas about this, but I've got some specific questions for anybody who has experience with brewing to this level of smokiness.

1) What form of oak should I use, cubes or chips? Assume I can't afford a barrel.
2) What toast level should I target?
3) What proportion of peated malt should I target?
4) How much oak, when should I add it, and when should I remove it?

Thanks!

[speed]

i would be concerned going over 4 oz peat, some people hate it, i like it. as for the oak someone else will have to answer that.

[pfooti]

Based on a few forum threads and some back podcasts of cybi and brewstrong, I've settled on 8 oz peated malt, 2 oz medium toast American cubes primary (2 weeks), and 1oz for a 1-2 month secondary. tasting will determine the end of the secondary. I'll report back in nine months or whatever with results.

[brewinhard]

You bring up some good questions....

As for peat smoked malt, it is quite strong in both flavor and aroma. You are brewing a large wee heavy so more smoked malt can be used to get the same nuances. I would start with 8 oz in your recipe and adjust for the future. If you really want to go big (and I would be careful with it) then use 1# but NO MORE! Before your brew with it, try eating a few of the grains to get a feel for the strength and flavor of that specific batch of smoked malt that you bought.

Besides peat smoked malt, you could also use German Rauchmalt which is typically less smokey and less intense. You could easily sub in 4-5# of this in your recipe and get a nice background smokiness that would not be as objectionable in your wee heavy. But if you are looking for that intense smoke, then maybe you should give peat malt a chance.

As for oak, you will want to go with cubes as they can be left in your beer for a longer time than chips can due to the differences in surface area. I would use either a Hungarian or French oak (med toast is my favorite) and add anywhere from 1-2 oz. You might want to go with 2 oz if you desire a big oakiness. These should be added to your aging vessel (keg or carboy). Be sure to sanitize them first by boiling up some water for a few minutes, then turn off the flame, add your cubes, let them sit for 15 min. Decant the water and add the cubes to your secondary. This method also helps leech out some of the extra tannins in the fresh wood. Leave these in the beer for at least 2 mos then have a sample and see if additional aging will be needed. Hope this helps!

[pfooti]

Awesome, thanks for the advice. Tasting the peated malt is probably an especially good idea as I imagine that stuff could sit around for a while before selling. I bet they vary a lot in smokiness.

[BlueLoon]

american gives more aroma
french more body
the heavy toast more sugar like flavors
so for a scotish beer, i would to a french or hungarian medium to heavy toast of like a half oz to flavor.
a half oz willl be slower so you can try it. under is better than over oaking.
hungarian medium may be better for a this style but always think of original technique also.
the shea comfort show has lots of oak flavor stuff.....

[BlueLoon]

i is drunk you am i think. seriously. shea comfort and doc know this shit. american has more aroma, french the body, hungarian in the middles and double penitration all around.bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb