Any suggestions BJCP judges?

[brewinhard]

Just entered a pumpkin spice ale into a comp in the S/H/V category. Scored a 40 and I was happy. In the overall impression area, the judges noted that the beer probably would've scored higher had I stated a "base beer" to compare and judge it against. Herein lies my question.

I understand that many beers in these categories will have base beer styles (ie coffee porter, vanilla stout, etc). What should I have place in the base beer category for a pumpkin spice ale? The color most closely resembled an amber ale around 12-13 SRM, but it is by NO means an AMBER ALE. Amber ales are hoppy and supported by toasty, sweet malt. Could I have simply called the base beer a "generic amber ale" as others have and judges would understand what I meant? Or do I need to explain myself on the forms provided? Any help would be greatly appreciated in this issue for I am at a loss and I am sure others have experienced this as well.

[Mills]

Ambers dont have to be too hoppy to be in range for style. Please post the recipe, and/or give judge flavor and aroma feedback and we can see where it might fit.

Mills

[Whitebeard_Brewer]

Although not a judge yet, I would say....if you removed all pumpkin, spice, etc....that gave it the unique character you got, what category would you enter that beer in? All you have to do is list that on the entry form....not go into great depth on the brewing process.

My $.02

[BDawg]

Some of the competition software really sucks when it comes to the specialty or wide open categories. S/H/V and Smoked, Belgian Specialty, and Braggots -- you really need to be able to spell out what you are entering.

I'd suggest you try to add enough detail so the judge has a clue what you were trying to do.

Generic Amber ale with low/moderate/high noble/english/american hops?
When you say it was not toasty and sweet, was it Alt-like or more melanoidany like an Vienna/Marzen/Okto but with ale yeast?
Make mention of yeast character, too, such as Cal Ale or Abbey yeast when they add phenolics that may present a distinct flavor profile.

[edit] I concur with what both Mills and Whitebeard said above [/edit]

HTH-

[Mills]

The other thing is with all of the specialty type categories is this. Make your beer with however many spices/fruit additions/herbs, etc. Then, drink the finished product with you friends and write down what they perceive. That is what you should enter it as.

I have judged countless beers with 5 specialty ingredients but you can only taste two. As a judge you must knock points off if they list something you cant perceive. Your vanilla coconut porter my be stellar, but if i don't taste coconut i have to ding it.

Mills

[JohnF]

The other thing is with all of the specialty type categories is this. Make your beer with however many spices/fruit additions/herbs, etc. Then, drink the finished product with you friends and write down what they perceive. That is what you should enter it as.

I have judged countless beers with 5 specialty ingredients but you can only taste two. As a judge you must knock points off if they list something you cant perceive. Your vanilla coconut porter my be stellar, but if i don't taste coconut i have to ding it.

Mills

+1. You can cheat and say something like "pumpkin pie spices" or "christmas spices" too.

As for the OP, try to do better than "pumpkin ale". Is it similar to a widely distributed (in the region of the competition) example? Try to do something to describe what you were shooting for, that makes it easier for the judge to give you points.

[thatguy314]

Both fruit and spice/herb/vegetable beers REQUIRE a base beer style to be described. In it is stated explicitly and implicitly in the style guidelines that it does not need to be a "classic style" (aka a BJCP category). It should say enough that the judges understand the base beer and how you augmented it. Take Bugeater's Oatmeal Amber. I don't think the base beer fits any classic style. Perhaps its most like a scottish ale, but uses a characterful english yeast which isn't really appropriate for a scottish ale. Maybe a pale mild? Too strong. An English brown ale would probably be the closest I guess, but don't think it has the "classic" flavors. But it's a great beer. It showcases a well-brewed beer with a good and complimentary spice profile.

That said, you may get some judges who don't read the style guidelines carefully enough and may ding you for not using one of the BJCP styles. Not all judges are perfect, and that can be a problem.

Thus, I think you just need to describe what the base beer is. You don't need to have a base BJCP style. You just need to give the judges two things to assess: a base beer, and a spicing job.

That said, many SHV and Fruit beers are based on a classic style. There's nothing wrong with naming that style as long as the base beer is a good representation of the style by itself. But if you allter the base beer significantly to change meet the spicing, this isn't a great idea.

I'm sorry if I'm not being clearer.

[DannyW]

Last time I entered Bug's Oatmeal Raisin Cookie Amber I quoted the S/H/V guidelines in the comments section: "CLASSIC STYLES DO NOT HAVE TO BE CITED (E.G., “PORTER” OR “WHEAT ALE” IS ACCEPTABLE)," so since generic "Wheat Ale" is acceptable, I am entering as a generic "Amber Ale." That passed muster at least in this one competition. YMMV.