need help with my imperial Red recipe

[thatguy314]

Oops. I ment to say something along those lines as well.

Whirlpool hops won't develop much flavor. I'd expect a 10 minute whirlpool to give you less bitterness than a 10 minute boil. How much bitterness you go would be an interesting question

My calculator (tinseth) says 87IBUs for a 10 minute boil addition (exceedingly bitter), 47 IBUs for a 5 minute boil addition (should still be quite firmly bitter, much like a pale ale), and 10 IBUs for a 1 minute addition

That's different than Rager which goes from 50IBUs at 1 minute to 63 at 10 minutes.... though IIRC Tinseth said Rager and Gareth were highly innacurate at the early time points... so who knows...

Anyways. Do you detect the bitterness? How intense would you say it is.

This candy sweet note is more in the aroma than the flavor - it is not really a sweet or cloying beer. There is some bitterness, although I am not very good at estimating total IBUs (maybe 30-40 ish??). I was partly interested to see how much bitterness I would get from an all whirlpool hopped beer, and there is definitely a fair amount there. However, I am starting to think that maybe this metallic note I've picked up may be secondary to this large amount of late hops, although I guess the yeast might be playing a role as well.

I am considering re-brewing this and ditching the crystal malts entirely - especially after hearing Vinnie mention the last time he was on the session about his feeling that crystal malts clash with american hops. Maybe I will try the hopping schedule suggested in Jamil's Evil Twin recipe and dry hop it as well. I really had high hopes for this, and I'm going to do my best to brew the beer I am looking for.

JG

A candy sweet (if sort of like a candy apple) can be an ester thing. Not to be confused with acetaldehyde (sharp green apple) you can get a red apple or candle apple aroma from esters, and I find it to be not particularly pleasant when in high amounts (though it works in some belgians). Ethyl acetate I think is one (though it gets like nail polish at high concentrations). There are also some esters that smell like strawberry jolly rancher to me too. Anyways, it could be a yeast derived thing that suggests the yeast might not be as happy as they should be.

[JasonG]

A candy sweet (if sort of like a candy apple) can be an ester thing. Not to be confused with acetaldehyde (sharp green apple) you can get a red apple or candle apple aroma from esters, and I find it to be not particularly pleasant when in high amounts (though it works in some belgians). Ethyl acetate I think is one (though it gets like nail polish at high concentrations). There are also some esters that smell like strawberry jolly rancher to me too. Anyways, it could be a yeast derived thing that suggests the yeast might not be as happy as they should be.

That could be it, but I really tried for good yeast health. I used a packet of 1450 that was dated within 3 weeks of brew day, made just about the size starter recommended my JZ's pitching calculator, oxygenated for about 30-45 sec, pitched active starter at ferm temp, held at 65 for several days (certaintly not too high for this yeast), and raised it up to 72 when ferm was basically done to really let it clean up, then crash cooled it. I did not use yeast nutrient, but I don't think I ever have before. Maybe I should start. I don't know why else the yeast would be unhappy. Maybe I should just try a different yeast. I am definitely intrigued by 007 from some of the CYBI shows.

I think I am going to let it sit in the keg for a while and taste again later to see if any of this settles out. I might put hoppy beer styles on hold for a while, this one has just left a bad taste in my mouth (literally and figuratively). Thinking about a weizenbock next.

JG

[b23]

I know a lot of people love that yeast, but your experience, as far as the flavor profile of the Imp Red you made with it, is akin to my experience with the yeast. I made Denny's RyeIPA and a big hoppy amber ale with it and with both beers, I found that I didn't like the metallic taste and oily mouthfeel. I attributed this to the yeast. Could have been anything, I suppose, but I decided it was the yeast and moved on.

I've since made the RyeIPA a couple of times with Wyeast 1272 and liked it a lot. And I've made other big hoppy red beers with 1272, 1056, and even 1968 (fermented cool) and liked all of those. So...

Again, a lot of people seem to love that yeast, but I decided I wasn't one of them.