Temp Probe Placement

[Mylo]

Its funny how different people work this in different ways.

I think exactly the opposite to Lonnie on this one, I want my temperature probe a close as possible to the point where the returning wort hits the mash tun wort. Which ipso facto, is as far as possible from the heat source. I want to know the temp of what is hitting my mash tun and could care less what the temp is when it exits the heat-exchanger (rims unit in my case) I have my probe attached to the outside of the copper return manifold, a few inches above the wort level in the mash tun.

For me the main reason for this is to remove the effect of ambient temperature and heat loss from hoses/lines between the heat exchanger and the tun.

Perhaps little different in a RIMS than a HERMS - and different in different types of HERMS systems too I imagine.

Actually the wort that is "farthest from the heat source" is the wort that is just about to go INTO the heat exchanger - just like the coldest time of night is JUST before sunrise - not the point equistant from sunset to sunrise. However, I think the best we can hope for in this application is the average mash temp. That really should be a probe right in the middle of the mash. If that is unpractical (especially if you do both 5 and 10G batches like I do) - then I think the best compromise is to put it where Thirsty Boy does (if he sets it for a little higher than his desired mash temp), or where Lonnie does it (and sets it for a little lower than his desired mash temp).


Mylo

[Lonnie Mac]

Not sure I am explaining this...

I do not set my set point lower, I set it to 152. (or whatever) The mash has to catch up to 152 and can not be lower, or higher. Once it reaches 152, it has to shut itself off. I take this measurement at the hottest point in the whole system. The hottest point of the whole system is 152.

Taking your measurement in the middle of the mash on a direct fired recirculating system would over heat the upper mash if left to its own devices because nothing is there to tell the heat source to shut itself off when the wort exiting the heat source reaches 152.

[pornstache]

Thanks, definitely appreciate feedback from the Man himself! Will send a few pics your way once the whole build is done.
I have brewed three batches so far sans temp control and i love it; can't wait till I don't have to monkey around behind the system to turn the mash and hlt burners on and off!

[Thirsty Boy]

Actually, at least on Brutus, I don't think there is more than a one degree difference between my exit wort and return wort...

But I like to look at things in an extreme example. That helps to better understand my madness...

So you have a direct fired heat source under your mash kettle blasting away at your return wort in which you pump directly back to the top of your mash via some plumbing. Let's say as an extreme example your return plumbing back to the top of the kettle is 50' long, causing you in theory massive heat loss, causing you to have to heat your lower heat source wort to dang near boiling (or whatever) degrees above your desired mash temp just to maintain your exit temp for the top of the mash. You have to super heat the wort under the mash, (including the lower portion of the mash) well beyond your set point to accomplish this.

The reason I designed it this way is first, the friggin tee is VERY cool and used in other applications such as cooling on the kettle! And the fact that there is no utter way my lower mash can overheat my set point of the system while I worry about the top of the mash. The mash will play catch-up until the whole mash is at exactly where I want it to be...

Your system may have different reasoning, but in a direct fired mash, I think it is more important to pay attention to the lower mash. The upper part of the mash will get there just fine by itself... Cus once I reach my set point of say 152, and nothing in my system got above 152, and 152 degree wort is constantly being recirculated through the whole mash from top to bottom, and the ASCO is dead silent because I set it to 152 because the whole system reached it, then I am simply at 152.

Furthermore, I do not understand why my post have to go through a moderator! I was colplink, member #30 on this board in 05' and I plan to post here more often you bastages!

I see - I didn't realise that the brutus was a direct fired mash tun - I thought it was a straight HERMS. Your reasoning is (of course) spot on if there is heat under the mash tun.

But - in a more conventional (I suppose) HERMS or RIMS where the heat source is entirely remote from the mash tun - then getting the probe as close to the return point as possible (inside the tun if you can) means the smallest possible differential between the set-point and the mash temp itself.

The T on the way into the mash-tun seems to be a a great and very workable best of all worlds scenario though.

[Mylo]

Actually, at least on Brutus, I don't think there is more than a one degree difference between my exit wort and return wort...

But I like to look at things in an extreme example. That helps to better understand my madness...

So you have a direct fired heat source under your mash kettle blasting away at your return wort in which you pump directly back to the top of your mash via some plumbing. Let's say as an extreme example your return plumbing back to the top of the kettle is 50' long, causing you in theory massive heat loss, causing you to have to heat your lower heat source wort to dang near boiling (or whatever) degrees above your desired mash temp just to maintain your exit temp for the top of the mash. You have to super heat the wort under the mash, (including the lower portion of the mash) well beyond your set point to accomplish this.

The reason I designed it this way is first, the friggin tee is VERY cool and used in other applications such as cooling on the kettle! And the fact that there is no utter way my lower mash can overheat my set point of the system while I worry about the top of the mash. The mash will play catch-up until the whole mash is at exactly where I want it to be...

Your system may have different reasoning, but in a direct fired mash, I think it is more important to pay attention to the lower mash. The upper part of the mash will get there just fine by itself... Cus once I reach my set point of say 152, and nothing in my system got above 152, and 152 degree wort is constantly being recirculated through the whole mash from top to bottom, and the ASCO is dead silent because I set it to 152 because the whole system reached it, then I am simply at 152.

Furthermore, I do not understand why my post have to go through a moderator! I was colplink, member #30 on this board in 05' and I plan to post here more often you bastages!

I see - I didn't realise that the brutus was a direct fired mash tun - I thought it was a straight HERMS. Your reasoning is (of course) spot on if there is heat under the mash tun.

But - in a more conventional (I suppose) HERMS or RIMS where the heat source is entirely remote from the mash tun - then getting the probe as close to the return point as possible (inside the tun if you can) means the smallest possible differential between the set-point and the mash temp itself.

The T on the way into the mash-tun seems to be a a great and very workable best of all worlds scenario though.

Yes, sorry, Lonnie. I think T.B. and I were talking about non-direct fired mash tun systems, a la HERMS or RIMS.


Mylo

[Lonnie Mac]

Do you man that someone is using a Brutus in a method other than authorized!!

Give me names!!

[Mylo]

Do you man that someone is using a Brutus in a method other than authorized!!

Give me names!!

That'd be me, my friend.... sorry!



Thanks for the inspiration!


Mylo

[foomench]

Do you man that someone is using a Brutus in a method other than authorized!!

Thus I did not build a Brutus, but my rig is Brutus and Savant inspired. Oh, and I brew steam beer on it too.