Re: what should my new mash tun be

Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:27 am

Ozwald wrote:As for the batch vs fly discussion, I've done both but I only fly sparge now. They both have pros/cons & from my experience, neither is a bit better or easier than the other. I think it just comes down to how your system is set up & how you like to brew.

Agreed. It's just like life. Some people dream of JP in :nutters: . The others have no taste. :asshat:
"Mash, I made you my bitch!" -Tasty
User avatar
Dirk McLargeHuge
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 5702
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas

Re: what should my new mash tun be

Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:40 am

The system I inherited was set up for fly sparging, and I've always hit the 65-75% efficiency range, sometimes a little higher. I wish there was a larger igloo cooler than the 10 gallon. I can only fit 20 lbs or so of grain in and still be able to keep the water above the grain bed. Would a 60pt rectangular be too short for fly sparging?

questions about batch sparging:
Does one run off the first bit of wort at full flow, or slowly.
After adding water to the grain and stirring, do you let it sit for a few minutes?
Are the gravities of the 2 runnings drastically different?
graybeerd
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:12 pm
Location: Cincinnati

Re: what should my new mash tun be

Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:49 am

graybeerd wrote:The system I inherited was set up for fly sparging, and I've always hit the 65-75% efficiency range, sometimes a little higher. I wish there was a larger igloo cooler than the 10 gallon. I can only fit 20 lbs or so of grain in and still be able to keep the water above the grain bed. Would a 60pt rectangular be too short for fly sparging?

questions about batch sparging:
Does one run off the first bit of wort at full flow, or slowly.
After adding water to the grain and stirring, do you let it sit for a few minutes?
Are the gravities of the 2 runnings drastically different?


1: The 60qt will work fine with bigger grain bills. You just need a few inches of grain depth.
2: Back when I was batch sparging I would open the valve about half way. It's possible to get a stuck mash at full flow.
3: I didn't. It takes long enough to run it to the kettle that you'll be rinsing your grain just fine. I always hit my numbers.
4: Yes.
Lee

"Show me on this doll where the internet hurt you."

"Every zoo is a petting zoo if you man the fuck up."

:bnarmy: BN Army // 13th Mountain Division :bnarmy:
User avatar
Ozwald
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3628
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Gallatin Gateway, Montana

Re: what should my new mash tun be

Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:55 am

graybeerd wrote:Does one run off the first bit of wort at full flow, or slowly.
After adding water to the grain and stirring, do you let it sit for a few minutes?
Are the gravities of the 2 runnings drastically different?

I run it off fast. me=lazy :mrgreen:

I let the water sit for 10-15 minutes for the second sparge. Some one told me that it wasn't necessary, but unless sugar in a solution travels at the speed of light, it takes a bit of time for the liquid to pull the sugars from the grain.

I've never measured the gravities. I do notice the second sparge is lighter in color than the first, so I would expect a difference.
Last edited by Dirk McLargeHuge on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: grammar
"Mash, I made you my bitch!" -Tasty
User avatar
Dirk McLargeHuge
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 5702
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas

Re: what should my new mash tun be

Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:57 am

Dirk McLargeHuge wrote:I run it off fast. ... it takes a bit of time for the liquid to pull the sugars from the grain.


Hmmmm.... :D

Just sayin
Lee

"Show me on this doll where the internet hurt you."

"Every zoo is a petting zoo if you man the fuck up."

:bnarmy: BN Army // 13th Mountain Division :bnarmy:
User avatar
Ozwald
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3628
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Gallatin Gateway, Montana

Re: what should my new mash tun be

Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:13 am

Ozwald wrote:
Dirk McLargeHuge wrote:I run it off fast. ... it takes a bit of time for the liquid to pull the sugars from the grain.


Hmmmm.... :D

Just sayin

EDIT: Most of my first batch sparges are 3/4 to 1 1/2 gallon, as calculated by BeerSmith, and is added at the end of the mash. So the water in the mash tun has been in contact with the grains for at least an hour already. By that time, according to what high school chemistry I remember, the sugar in the grain and the water are pretty much at equilibrium. Letting it sit another fifteen minutes while slowly sparging won't extract too much more sugar.

The second sparge is normally 3-4 gallons. I let it sit 10-15 minutes, as I said, to get more sugar out of the grains. Then I drain it like cow pissing on a flat rock.

YMMV
Last edited by Dirk McLargeHuge on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: clarification
"Mash, I made you my bitch!" -Tasty
User avatar
Dirk McLargeHuge
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 5702
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas

Re: what should my new mash tun be

Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:59 am

Dirk McLargeHuge wrote:Agreed. It's just like life. Some people dream of JP in :nutters: . The others have no taste. :asshat:

I think you meant, " Some people dream of JP in :nutters: ... others dream of him nude."
Spiderwrangler
PFC, Arachnid Deployment Division

In the cellar:
In the fermentor: Belgian Cider
In the works: Wooden Cider
User avatar
spiderwrangler
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:09 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: what should my new mash tun be

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:00 am

After reading through the posts here there is a lot of good information to consider when deciding on a mash tun type or sparge method, but I have a few additional bits of information to consider ... plus my .02 cents.

One of the most common flaws that I see from all grain brews is a lack of body/mouthfeel. I am convinced that this comes from homebrewers often not performing a mash-out step to fully denature the Alpha and Beta amylases. The typical process that, I believe, is at fault for this phenomenon is as follows. Brewers complete there mash and sparge with 170 degree water which will never get the grain bed up to the enzyme denaturing temp of 168. The collected wort sits in a secondary container for often an hour + during the sparge and slowly cools down enabling the various enzymes to continue their work and negating all the brewer's efforts to maintain a 156 degree mash resulting in a highly fermentable, dry, and low bodied beer.

Your particular set-up will determine how the mash-out can be performed. If you have a set-up with enough space to add enough hot water to bring the grain bed up to 168 degrees, then you are golden. From there you simply proceed to the sparge, after a 10-15 minute rest/vorlauf, with 168 -170 degree water. The second option (also they option I use), design your set-up to sparge with your 170 degree water to slightly raise the grain bed temp (ensuring that the grain bed does not drop below mash temps) and collect the wort in a kettle. Once a couple of gallons are collected, low heat can be applied which basically performs the mash-out enzyme denaturing as the wort is being collected. Planning for this mash-out step as you choose your mash tun would be recommended ... at least my me.

Sparge method fly vs batch: You can make good beer either way and it just depends on your preferences and set-up, but it does take a bit more caution on the brewer's part to not screw up while fly sparging. You just need to keep a few things in mind (fly sparge):

1) Make sure to run-off slow as efficiency lowers with faster run-off speeds.
2) As you near your batch volume, be sure to check the gravity of your, well mixed, collected wort to see if continued sparging is even necessary.
3) As you near the end of the sparge, be sure to check the gravity of the run-off as you don't want that to drop below 1.012. Once the gravity drops below 1.010, that is the point when the pH in the mash has risen to undesirable ranges and tannin extraction becomes a problem. (Batch sparging does not have this issue of pH "creep").

Fly sparging does give you better control over your starting gravities. For my fly-sparge process, I consistently get ~82-83% efficiency but calculate my grain bill for a 78% efficiency. This effectively gives me:

1) a little wiggle room in case I screw up somewhere and have a lower efficiency mash/sparge on any particular batch.
2) gets me to the desired surgar content in my collected wort faster (i.e. I have all the sugars I need for an 11 gallon post boil batch by the time I have collected 10 gallons of wort ... quicker to collect 10 gallons of wort than 13+ gallons). Once I have all the necessary gravity point I dilute up to pre-boil volume with filtered water and start the boil. Equation (using just the number after the decimal point (i.e. 1.064 is 64)): Post boil gravity=Gravity of collected wort * Volume of collected wort / post boil volume.
3) Naturally keeps me away from the tannin extraction "danger-zone" as my run-off is usually around 1.020 by the time I have all the needed sugars. (granted I am wasting some grains, but also preventing brew day headaches).

Hope that all makes sense.

Cheers!
Eagle Dude

On Tap: Barrel Fermented Berlinerweisse 3.2%; American Pale Ale 6.3%, Amarillo Blond 5%
Aging: Flander's Red in a 60 gallon Merlot barrel
Fermenting: Robust Porter 6.5%
User avatar
EagleDude
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:23 pm
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ

PreviousNext

Return to All Grain Brewing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

A BIT ABOUT US

The Brewing Network is a multimedia resource for brewers and beer lovers. Since 2005, we have been the leader in craft beer entertainment and information with live beer radio, podcasts, video, events and more.