Brett and Sour

Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:59 pm

I'm going to do a sour with local bing cherries soon. I had a great sour at Double Mountain in Hood River Oregon called Devil's Kriek which is made with Brett and Rochefort yeast. I've emailed the brewer and not heard back yet but I'm thinking (after listening to Crooked Stave) that Brett won't bring sour to the party and the source of the sour in this beer is Pedio present on the fresh cherries. Anyone brew with Brett Lambicus and does it sour a beer? Or do you need lacto or pedio to sour ?
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Re: Brett and Sour

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:37 am

I recentlty re-listed to the Mike Mraz episode where they discussed side by side comparisons with all of the brett strains. I THINK the consensus the mabicus added a cherry pie flavor, but not sourness. The pedio and lacto was needed for sourness. I think a sour mash is also a good way to get some sourness up front from lacto.
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Re: Brett and Sour

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:43 am

Quin wrote:I recentlty re-listed to the Mike Mraz episode where they discussed side by side comparisons with all of the brett strains. I THINK the consensus the mabicus added a cherry pie flavor, but not sourness. The pedio and lacto was needed for sourness. I think a sour mash is also a good way to get some sourness up front from lacto.

I have heard this about B. Lambicus as well. Brett can sour a little bit, but in reality bacteria is needed to really sour a beer. After a pH a little below 4 (3.8 I think?) Brett stops working.

I think I would like to hear this podcast! Which episode was this? I have not been able to listen as regularly as I would like lately.
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Re: Brett and Sour

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:05 am

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Re: Brett and Sour

Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:00 am

Thanks Tom!
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Re: Brett and Sour

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:56 am

Depending on which strain of brett L. you use you will get different results. The Wyeast Brett L. will and does produce a very nice cherry pie aroma/flavor with a hint of tartness (very slight). The White Labs Brett L. is a completely different beast creating more horsey, leathery, smokey, funk in flavor and aroma.

I have always preferred the WY strain for my brett beers. Brett doesn't really sour a beer at all. Some strains will produce a very slight acidity over time, but not the typical lactic acidity most peoply correlate with sour beers. If you want to do a truly sour beer, your best bet would be use WY Roselare blend or WL sour mix in primary (no starter, be patient as it will get going eventually). Followed by the addition of some commercial dregs of sour beers you have purchased (think Jolly Pumpkin, Russian River, Cantillon, etc).
After primary fermentation is complete, rack your beer to a secondary on top of the fruit with your dregs added for complexity and depth. Give the fruit at least 6 mos on the beer and then have a taste. Package your beer when the gravity seems stable (same reading over the course of several weeks) and when the flavor is right for you.
Plan on your first batch taking about 9-12 mos before packaging. Meanwhile, use some of the yeast cake to make another sour beer. This second one should sour even quicker than the first as the bacteria and brett are ready to go! Good luck and most of all be patient.
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Re: Brett and Sour

Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:12 pm

Brett + lacto + pedio.
It is actually lacto that can give out when the pH drops. It will get things started, the others will finish the job.
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Re: Brett and Sour

Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:23 pm

I'm considering lacto souring a gallon of wort on the side using the lacto living on grain and then adding back to the batch when it is ready. This is definitely an intricate multi-step process that needs to be well thought out and planned if you don't want to toss the dice and take a chance. I'm of half a mind to let local microflora have their way but the other half of me says "hell no!" I like the idea of it being local, unique, and artisanal. I don't like leaving it up to chance. You know Vinnie doesn't leave it to chance. He knows what he's doing and takes it through the process. Maybe I'll just do two beers. Problem solved.
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