Barleywine stuck & other q's

[geekbits]

Hey all, first post here! I just made Jamil's Old Monster Barleywine recipe for my 1 year brewing anniversary, all grain (well, 1 can of LME for 'fortification'). I didnt have enough time for the starter, only gave it a day with one tube of WLP-005 (LHBS didnt have the 001) so I knew i might have this issue. it's stuck at 1.033 and my mash temp was between 145 and 149, so I know there's gotta be more fermentables in there, right? how should i get this going again? shake it up? make another starter for a day (or two?)? add some sugar? any help would be much appreciated. i moved it from 68 degrees to 70 and that didnt do anything, i was afraid to shake it.

i'm also worried that it's not going to be hoppy enough since all the hops are stuck on the top of my bucket (this bad boy almost exploded from the fermet, caught it just in time) so i'm wondering if i should dry hop it or not bother since i'm planning on aging it for years (will the flavor stay that long?) AND i'd like to wood age 1/2 of it with some cubes.

please help me make this the kick ass 1st anniversary brew that it's supposed to be. thanks.

[Petedadink]

First welcome aboard,
did you listen to the Jamil Show episode regarding barleywine? Id make up a starter and when the starter is at high Karousen pitch it in and give the carboy a good shake. That should get it kick started . Are you able to hold a solid temperature? That could also affect how the yeast perform , By only pitching one vial The yeast might have been stressed to the point where they might throw off some unwanted phenols , some will dissipate over time while others will stay. Good Job on taking on such a big beer.

[Mylo]

please help me make this the kick ass 1st anniversary brew that it's supposed to be. thanks.

Welcome, to the forum.

What was your OG? If it was 1.110 then you are already at 70% AA and I wouldn't expect more than that, especially with a light pitch.

Next time a situation like that arises, you can pitch a little warm and give it a ton of O2. As long as you get it down within 12 hours or so you will be fine. Ideally, you would pitch the right amount to begin with, at or slightly below your ferm temp.

I hope your beer turns out good - but I have to be skeptical. As Pete mentioned, thats a pretty stressful fermentation environment. Next time, take your prep time and make an appropriate sized starter - http://www.mrmalty.com.


Mylo

[TastyMcD]

Welcome to the BN forum.

Since you didn’t give us a starting gravity I can’t say for sure if you have a stuck or a completed fermentation. You would expect an attenuation of 67-74 percent with the yeast you selected. (Jamil gets the high end the rest of somewhere in the range. ) If your starting gravity was 1.115 like Jamil suggested in his recipe, then you’re at 69% attenuation. That would be pretty good ferment considering the size of your initial yeast pitch. I expect you had a extremely long lag time and will be tasting a lot of esters in your beer.

It would be normal to have yeast or resin stuck to the top of your bucket but hops would imply you transferred hop particulate from the boil. That’s not good.

At your low mash temp and my feeling that your starting gravity was at least 1.115, I’d say your beer is done.

I wouldn’t dry hop if you’re going to age the beer. You’d just be adding hop aroma that’s just going to go away.

BTW, tell us how the beer tastes? Sweet? Alcoholic? Fruity?

Tasty

[geekbits]

Thanks for the replies and welcomes guys. Reazlied I didnt put my OG but had to wait for approval before the topic appeared. it was 1.102 (my efficiency isnt too great with batch sparging). does this mean i likely have more to go? if so what should i do (need to use the same yeast? what sized starter? a more alcohol tolerant yeast?) if i'm going to pitch more do i need to get it into a secondary (it's been in primary since 1/25; a little long i know)? if you dont think another pitch would help, would sweetness mellow with age too or will it likely always be way too far on the sweet side?

and it was a little unclear after rereading my post that i did do a starter but was unable to step it up to a gallon, only did a 2000ml for a day so i figure it at most doubled to two vials, not the recommended 4. there was no different lag than normal, and when i came home to it after work the next day i was thankful the bugger hadnt exploded, the lid of the bucket was bowed like i couldnt even imagine (i only used an airlock not a blowoff tube which i switched to that night).

my room downstairs (where i started it) and my closet upstairs (where it is now) hold a steady air temp of 68 and 70 respectively. i realized it's not air temp to be ideal, but it's all i can do for the time being. it doesnt taste highly alcoholic, just really really sweet, the kind that coats your teeth and gets sticky on anything it touches (cue bevis & butthead). Otherwise the taste is along the lines of what i was going for, can taste the hops a little through the sweetness and there is a bit of the english yeast flavors but i'm fine with that, and not too much of them. The sweetness definitely overwhelms anything else that might be detectable (frutiness, etc).

yes, i dump everything from the kettle into the primary, i just cant get past throwing 3 oz of hops in at flameout and then racking the beer off of it right away. there's got to be some goodness in the trub? can you explain why my reasoning is wrong/what badness is in there? maybe i can switch to leaving the trub behind now that i'm maturing as a brewer.

i didnt listen to Jamil's barleywine show, stupid of me since i listen to all the other recent BN shows all day at work, maybe i'll listen today during work to figure out what i did wrong.

thanks again guys.

[SacoDeToro]

Personally, I think making a starter for a barleywine (or RIS for that matter) is not ideal. IMO, you're much better off brewing a smaller beer to grow up your yeast and repitching. I do a high gravity barleywine once a year and I've never had any issues with it finishing out. I usually brew a pale ale or IPA and collect a huge pitch of yeast. My 2007 b-wine had an OG/FG of 1.126/1.024, 2008 was 1.132/1.030, and 2009 was 1.130/1.027 - all around 14% ABV. I use double yeast nutrient, triple O2, and like JZ, ramp up the fermentation temp 3-4 degrees the last week in the primary. All of my b-wines have been fermented with WLP001. I also add a dextrose syrup a few days into primary fermentation (high krausen), so all of my aforementioned OGs are "theoretical," i.e. as if I'd added the dextrose in the kettle. Any starting OGs above 1.120 are pushing things in terms of osmotic pressure on the yeast. If your OG is too high, the density of the liquid will grossly inhibit the ability of the yeast to uptake nutrients and sugars. Osmotic pressure is much more of a factor in high gravity beers that alcohol percentage/tolerance, IMO and experience.

[Mylo]

Personally, I think making a starter for a barleywine (or RIS for that matter) is not ideal. IMO, you're much better off brewing a smaller beer to grow up your yeast and repitching. I do a high gravity barleywine once a year and I've never had any issues with it finishing out. I usually brew a pale ale or IPA and collect a huge pitch of yeast. My 2007 b-wine had an OG/FG of 1.126/1.024, 2008 was 1.132/1.030, and 2009 was 1.130/1.027 - all around 14% ABV. I use double yeast nutrient, triple O2, and like JZ, ramp up the fermentation temp 3-4 degrees the last week in the primary. All of my b-wines have been fermented with WLP001. I also add a dextrose syrup a few days into primary fermentation (high krausen), so all of my aforementioned OGs are "theoretical," i.e. as if I'd added the dextrose in the kettle. Any starting OGs above 1.120 are pushing things in terms of osmotic pressure on the yeast. If your OG is too high, the density of the liquid will grossly inhibit the ability of the yeast to uptake nutrients and sugars. Osmotic pressure is much more of a factor in high gravity beers that alcohol percentage/tolerance, IMO and experience.

You.... you......... YEAST SQUASHER, you!


Mylo

[kace069]

Excess trub leads to excess nutrient for bacteria to ruin your beer.

You don't want to put the entire contents of your BK into your fermenter.

Flame out hops are flame out hops end of story. Yes at today's prices for hops it does hurt to throw in 3oz of hops in at the end of the boil. But 0 minute hop additions are meant to do one thing. Lock in hop aromas! They are not added for bitterness or even flavor. Just to lock in the fresh aroma of the hops into the wort so they can be released when you pour that beer into a glass. Carrying those hops over to your ferementer is asking for trouble. You can extract tannins and grassy flavors you do not want from just letting them go into the fermenter. Your goal is to reduce the amount of non-wort matter in your fermenter. Hops definitely don't belong in brand new wort waiting for yeast to be pitched. Sacrifice your money knowing that your 0 minute hops are adding to the brew and leaving them in for the ferment is not indicative of money well spent.

Realistically you are not going to get your wort into your fermenter 100% trub free. No one does. In fact a little trub in your fermenter is a good thing. But excessive amounts of trub that includes hops is not ideal. You will make beer, but it won't be as great as it could have been.