don't care to use priming sugar

[phrieken2]

Hey,
I am about to bottle a cal common in which I have no desire to use priming sugar. I would like to bottle a little early and let the thing lager itself into carbonation. I know this method is more commonly used in some brewery setups so I know it is entirely possible, but I am desperately trying to avoid the whole opening the bottle and getting all foam, waiting, ending up with a quarter of a beer and sticky hands, floor, sink, etc. I am wondering if there is a formula for points of gravity to volumes of co2. I realize this is probably decently temperature dependent and I am too much of a fat load to get off my butt and look it up or figure it out on my own at work....

[Happy Smurf]

While I don't have an equation for you, I thought I would just ask for\provide some clarity. The temperature dependence is how much CO2 the beer will hold in solution. The amount of CO2 which is created is dependent only on the mass of sugar fermented by the yeast.

Thinking out loud....

From BeerSmith I estimate that you are targeting 2.6 volumes for a Cal common. This corresponds to 13.36 psi at 40 deg F. So we need to know how much sugar the yeast will need to ferment to achieve the proper priming. Now, for the last hour or so I've been loocking at chemical equation, ideal gas laws and molecular masses. However, I've come to think there is a much easier way. BeerSmith will tell you that for each gallon of beer at 40 deg F you would want to prime with 0.611 ounces of corn sugar. So all we need to do is calculate when there is that much fermentable suagr left in the fermenting beer. I used this table for most of the calculations that follow. Using excel I was able to determine that each "point" on the hydrometer corresponds to 0.356 ounces of sugar per gallon. So if for each gallon we need 0.611 ouncs we would "seal" up our fermentor with 1.7 to 2 points left in fermentation.

0.611/0.356 = 1.7163

So if you expect that your fermentation will finish around 1.012, you would bottle at around 1.014. If I have done everything right, the "equation" becomes:

Estimated Final Gravity + (Required Priming Suger in ounces)/(0.356 ounces/"point") = Bottling Specific Gravity

I hope someone can double check this for me, and if you do end up using this approach, let me know if it works.

[phrieken2]

what do you mean you don't have an equation for me....! That's awesome. I only have to use a nomograph and I have my answer as far as I can tell. I did not use this method this time since it is the first Cal common I have brewed and I need to figure out where finishing gravity is for this yeast on my system and recipe, but for next time I will use this method with 60 degrees at bottling and aiming for 3.5 volumes of CO2. And thanks for the quick well thought out response. I had no idea how to approach the Co2 issue of how much is in the beer at bottling, but the nomograph pretty well gets around that issue and it quickly becomes one of how much sugar is in each point. I follow you man and thanks a bunch for crunching the numbers!!!!!!!!

[Quin]

You can also ferment out a sample at a warmer temperature to final gravity to see where this batch will end up.

As far as priming sugar goes, weigh out the amount you would normally use (most use volume measurements instead of weight measurements) and determine number of gravity points you would get.

For example: 0.5 lbs sugar x 46 points per pound per gallon /10 gallons = 2.3 points above terminal gravity

[Dubba_Brew]

I know this is kind of an old post, but I've heard of quite a few people holding back some wort and using that to carbonate with. I can't quite remember what the ratio was... I think if you made 5 gallons (approx 20 liters) you would keep back 1 liter to carbonate with. What's that... 5%? Use that wort as your priming solution.

The only thing I don't know about is how to keep that wort? Of course you want to put it in something that has been cleaned and sanitized, but what do you do with it right before you pitch that wort into your beer? Do you have to give it a quick boil again? Do you just have to dunk the container into sanitizing solution?

I don't know... just some thoughts. I think I may try this on my next batch.

[Mylo]

Sorry, this is the first time I saw this old post. I hear that you don't want to use priming sugar - but why? It sounds like you are not adverse to bottle conditioning and the yeast layer it leaves behind in you bottle. You also don't seem to be adverse to rolling the dice, and most likely not getting the carbonation level you desire. Are you a "reinheitsgebot snob"? The krausening, racking early, and corn sugar methods all have a little luck involved. Equations aside - you can never really be sure when your yeasty boys will decide to call it quits.

I much prefer the "non-reinheitsgebot" alternative - to force carbonate in a keg, and then CP fill bottles. You are always assured of the exact carbonation level, and no corn sugar dice rolling is involved.


Mylo

[phrieken2]

I am not a reinheits...... snob, I was doing a lager and lagering in the bottle, just didn't really want to have to add sugar and keep fermentation process drug out even longer. to be frank, I was being lazy. Now this poor bastard is assembling a kegging system so I can avoid bottling future lagers. I am not real happy with the results of bottling lagers since I can't temp control the bottles while they condition/lager (gotta put the food somewhere), the solution is going to be a dorm fridge with a single tap, keeping the keg not attached to the tap as a lagering lager. going to be interesting to juggle kegs, but should be managable with three or so kegs and result in me enjoying properly aged lagers and ales off of the same one tap dorm fridge kegerator. Just means I have to finish the keg before I move to the next beer, so I better stop brewing styles I don't care for and get ready for my liver to hate high alcohol styles. Will likely keep bottling my belgian style ales, since I like the higher carbonation on them and have so much practice bottling.

[Mylo]

iirc, you don't have to worry about temp controlling the bottle conditioning of lagers. You can do them at room temp with no ill effects from a "warm fermentation". There will not be that much sugar in there for them to throw out "off flavors".

You can also keg your belgians - you just need to keep your belgians at the higher recommended pressure and balance your system (ie. longer beer line). A lot of people think that bottle conditioning the belgians makes it more "authentic". I say fooey. CO2 is CO2.


Mylo