Sour cider?

Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:49 am

Has anyone ever brewed a cider and then pitched souring bacteria? I was a huge fan of sour beers until a recent Celiac disease diagnosis. I'm investigating brewing alternatives and was wondering if anyone has had success with souring ciders.
Me: I'm gonna drink a Boon Geuze.
SWMBO: You're a booze goon.
PhillyBrewer
 
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:11 am

Re: Sour cider?

Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:55 am

My wife lived in San Sebastian, Spain for a year in college and fondly remembers the sidra that is one of the staple beverages of the Basque country. It's a naturally-fermented (malolactic I believe, along with present yeast) cider that is served fairly flat, put poured with some height to bring any CO2 in there of solution. I think Drew Beechum's cider book has a recipe for making something like this.
Primary: Golden Sour, Cider
Secondary: Golden Sour w/cherries, Raspberry Melomel
Cellar-Aging: Blackberry Melomel, Hawaiian Wildflower Mead
Kegged and on-tap: Berliner Weisse, Lorena Hop-it
Up Next: Something for the new barrel
SantaCruzBrew
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:58 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: Sour cider?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:04 pm

I feel like I remember the Mad Fermentationist doing a sour cider before. You may want to check out his site as well as the Burgundian Babble Belt for any info on sour ciders. I wouldn't think it would be too difficult. Couldn't you just pitch a huge, healthy lacto starter (a heterofermentive strain that produces both lactic acid AND alcohol) and let it ferment warm (80-85F) for a week or so, then pitch some brett to finish it off?
"A bad man is a good man's job, while a good man is a bad man's teacher."
brewinhard
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4065
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:41 am
Location: Fredonia, NY

Re: Sour cider?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:30 pm

I made a Brett cider once. Just like the finest Spanish cider, it tasted like ass. I'm never doing that again.

If you want a tart cider, use tart apples. Or add malic acid. Or both. Done.
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)
User avatar
dmtaylor
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Two Rivers, WI

Re: Sour cider?

Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:47 pm

dmtaylor wrote:I made a Brett cider once. Just like the finest Spanish cider, it tasted like ass. I'm never doing that again.

If you want a tart cider, use tart apples. Or add malic acid. Or both. Done.



What do you think made it taste like ass? When did you ferment with the brett? Primary assumingly? What strain did you use? I have heard of people brewing all brett ciders with some mixed results.
"A bad man is a good man's job, while a good man is a bad man's teacher."
brewinhard
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4065
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:41 am
Location: Fredonia, NY

Re: Sour cider?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:16 pm

brewinhard wrote:What do you think made it taste like ass?

Filtering it through his :nutters: ?
:D
Gimme oysters and beer (and Durian) for dinner every day of the year...
User avatar
mike____
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 3:05 pm
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes

Re: Sour cider?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:11 am

mike____ wrote:
brewinhard wrote:What do you think made it taste like ass?

Filtering it through his :nutters: ?
:D


It probably would have tasted better through my :nutters: .

brewinhard wrote:What do you think made it taste like ass? When did you ferment with the brett? Primary assumingly? What strain did you use? I have heard of people brewing all brett ciders with some mixed results.


I made this cider in 2011, so my memories are fading, but from what I can recall... I used Cote des Blancs for primary for about a month or so, then added some type of Brett, I can't remember which, and let that sit for a good 6 months or so at cellar temps in the upper 50s to 60 F. By the end of that, it was quite tart, and had that sort of pineapple and goaty funk thing going on, which I thought was okay so I bottled it. Then over the course of the next 2 years, I decided that I didn't like the Brett character in the cider, plus it went from dry & tart to super-ultra-dry-&-tart and way overcarbonated/gushers. At the tail end of 2013, I had only consumed probably 3 or 4 total bottles of the stuff and always found it very difficult to finish an entire 12-oz bottle, so I finally determined that it was time to pour all the rest of the bottles down the drain.

Like I said, if I'd called it a Basque cider, it might win accolades from people in Spain. I don't know any people from Spain. So, to me and anyone else I know, it tasted like ass. So bye bye, never again. No need for Brett in cider. If you don't use Brett, the cider tastes good. If you do, it might not taste good. Not worth the risk IMO.

For whatever else it's worth, if you leave cider sitting in an open bucket for a few months, you can make some absolutely fantastic cider vinegar. I have about 3 gallons left out of 5. I use it for cooking and salads and stuff. It's tasty and useful.
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)
User avatar
dmtaylor
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Two Rivers, WI

Re: Sour cider?

Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:36 am

I made a sour cider a few months ago using ECY-20 Bug County. It tuned out really well, but didn't have any funky brett characters like the above post. It has a good sour with a lot of pineapple (this is form the brett but goes well with the apples).

It also fermented dry in just a few weeks.
http://hivemindmead.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... cider.html

It sounds like a real hit or miss thing depending on the bug blend you use. Or just pitch lacto and wine yeast to be safe.
HiveMindMead
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:06 am

Next

Return to Mead & Cider

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

A BIT ABOUT US

The Brewing Network is a multimedia resource for brewers and beer lovers. Since 2005, we have been the leader in craft beer entertainment and information with live beer radio, podcasts, video, events and more.