Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:25 am

StPatrick wrote:My fermentation of a saison had slowed to a crawl by day two... I needed to rouse it twice a day to keep it going. Around day four I added the oil... now it has been going non-stop for 24 hours.


Thats cool if it can be used to restart a fermentation too

I haven't been adding it to the wort directly, I've been adding it to my yeast on brew day.

If I get a stuck fermentation I'll try this trick. Did you shake your fermenter after adding the oil, or just add the oil and let it go?



***
My Vienna was at high krausen this morning, I'm not sure when it happened overnight but it was somewhere between 24 and 36 hours after pitching. Without the olive oil this is when my lagers used to start showing signs of fermentation.
On tap 1: Dry Irish
On tap 2: El Jefeweizen
On tap 3: Vienna
kegged: Rye Amber, Belgian Dark Strong, CYBI Mirror Pond, Irish Red, RIS
lagering: Vienna, Helles, Cream Ale, CAP
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Field
 
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Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:05 am

Justin, you have absolutely got to get ahold of the olive oil aeration information from the guys at De Struise!
joques
 
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Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:17 am

joques wrote:Justin, you have absolutely got to get ahold of the olive oil aeration information from the guys at De Struise!


This would make a great show.

Use Doc's 20 gallon system and brew a beer that is strong enough to put the yeast through it's paces but without a lot of characters that could hide subtle details.

Split that beer 4 ways.
1st carboy - untreated as a control
2nd - shaken or aerated with an aquarium pump, whichever is considered
more common
3rd - oxygenated w pure O2
4th - olive oil in starter

Get a few people together and have them do a blind judging. Tape that segment.

A month later do a live segment where you have a few people in to judge blind.

Compare the results from the first and 2nd tasting, as one thing olive oil is supposed to provide is better stability and protection from oxidative effects.

See what happens
On tap 1: Dry Irish
On tap 2: El Jefeweizen
On tap 3: Vienna
kegged: Rye Amber, Belgian Dark Strong, CYBI Mirror Pond, Irish Red, RIS
lagering: Vienna, Helles, Cream Ale, CAP
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Field
 
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Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:36 am

Now that is a great idea! Doc - you payin attention?
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BrewTa2
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Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:59 am

Actually the olive oil does not add sterols, but unsaturated fatty acids (UFA). The yeast still need oxygen to produce sterols.

The yeast take an atom of oxygen to remove a hydrogen to produce the unsaturated fatty acid chain the yeast need to multiply. Olive oil contains oleic acid, which is the same 18-carbon monounsaturated UFA produced by yeast. So, instead of providing oxygen for the yeast to produce UFA, you just provide the required UFA straight to the yeast with the olive oil. But, you still need to oxygenate to produce the sterols.

The New Belgian experiments were not to produce the best fermentation with the least amount of esters. He was doing a specific experiment to see if you could have a ferment without oxygenating the beer to increase shelf life by reducing oxidation in the beer. It did increase shelf life, but the ferment was slower and there were more esters. The slower fermentation and esters were produced because they did not oxygenate the wort at all--something we would never think of doing as homebrewers. At the least we shake up our fermenter. I do not think the experiment was flawed. He suggested adding the olive oil in conjunction with wort aeration, but that would have defeated the purpose of his experiment, which was to specifically ferment successfully without oxygenating. Grady did an excellent job. Buy this is all old news now. I think he said he did this back in 2005...

If I have a stuck fermentation and I need to pitch more yeast, I add a drop of olive oil at the same time. It cranks right off, but I have only needed to do that one time since I have been using olive oil. When I fermented "Cause of Death" I fed the wort daily with concentrated wort I boiled down and I oxygenated at each feeding. Now I think I would just try adding olive oil. I know on the next BIG Mead I want make next it will require me to feed it honey over the fermentation to avoid too high of a starting gravity (which would crush and kill the yeast)--I am going to add olive oil (along with the standard yeast nutrients) each time I add honey.

I hope I said all that correct...
Johnny
P.S. I do add a drop to my brew pot the last 10 minutes of the boil, but don't tell BeerMaker :wink:
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johnnymax
 
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Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:49 am

I have been making a Belgian triple for a while now. It was taking just shy of 3 weeks to ferment out. But since I listed to Johnny's Show, I have been adding one drop of Olive Oil to the boil on a pin, still using O2 for 1 min. and now my fermentation is done in 9 days.
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Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:17 am

johnnymax wrote:Sorry the quality may be off on the show sometimes. We are constantly working on it.

Don't get me wrong I am not complaining about your sound quality Jonny.
I used to listen to your show religiously. You have some great information, like the importance of yeast health, ways to coax yeast to ferment BIG beers like your "Cause of Death", and tips to make high gravity all grain beers. All great stuff. I enjoyed your early shows when you had schizophrenia and would have conversations with your dog, or hold entire classes while reprimanding Little Jamil for pouring beer out. IMHO you just need to turn your friends' microphones off, especially Cackle Queen. Now I realize this won't happen these are your friends, you enjoy their company and don't want to hurt any feelings (Fucking Feelings). Your show has really grown since you started and I wish you all the luck. I am curious about the interviews you did with John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff, but I need to build up some more tolerance. I hope you don't take this personally. I like you and some of your shows, just not your friends voices I guess.

Dragonhlm

P.S. I forgot to thank you for all of the technical information you have provided on Olive Oil Aeration. Thank you JonnyMax
I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. --Frank Sinatra
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dragonhlm
 
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Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:57 pm

FeldmarshalReinheitsgebot wrote:If I get a stuck fermentation I'll try this trick. Did you shake your fermenter after adding the oil, or just add the oil and let it go?


I shook it up one last time to get the oil around. Haven't had to shake it up since then. Still going strong.

Also, I used olive oil in a starter for my next cider. Using one packet of dried Safale 04 in a half gallon growler starter filled with apple juice... I added four drops of oil. I have about two inches of yeast at the bottom of the growler and it is still fermenting strongly 24 hours later.
On Tap: Saison
Ferm 1: Sour Ale
Ferm 2: 15 Brix Cider
Ferm 3: Pomegranate Wine
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StPatrick
 
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